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I still run a stock LS2 Pump and use 15/50 Mobil One Full Synthetic. I have around 40-42 psi cold and operating temps. We dont see any real cold weather so I run the 15/50 year round. This is completely normal for an LS2 so no worries!!
 

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TrailblazerSS RWD
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Discussion Starter #22
so do I need a new one or not?
 

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In general and as desired, oil pressure should increase 10 psi per every 1000 rpms but only to a point. An engine that idles hot at 30 psi would benefit from having 80-90 psi at 6000 rpm's. An engine that idles hot at 50 psi would not benefit from the 10 per 1000 rule.

Why?

A pump (any kind of pump) pumps volume...........and pressure comes from restriction. I can take any bone stock GM LS pump and make it to where you would have 125 psi at 5000 rpm's but you would be at even more danger of burning up bearings than you ever were. The stock LS oil pump.......ported, reworked, blueprinted, etc, etc, will still pump roughly the same volume as it did when it was "stock". The flow is improved but the volume of oil it moves is roughly the same. The regulator or "pressure valve" can be manipulated to increase the pressure to incredible heights but we've only restricted the flow or volume more.

The biggest problem with stock pumps--even modified ones--is at a certain pressure threshold (around 65-70 psi) the pump housing and the front plate begin to flex and warp under the pressure. The oil starts spraying like a broken fire hydrant at the seams so what volume was there initially becomes reduced as the oil leak robs the rest of the engine of oil. In most cases, the oil pressure doesn't noticeably drop on a gauge under these conditions so all looks good.........................until the rattle, rumble, or "ticking" noise has begun.

The Melling Select 296 mentioned is an increased volume pump. With increased volume, increased pressure comes with it as a side effect and not a bad one in this case. The optional stock pressure spring and whatnot that comes with it is mainly for us race guys who use oil passage restrictors and stuff to provide oil here or there more and take oil from unwanted/unneeded places. The Melling 296 "as is" is a much improvement over the stock piece even if modified. The housing (although somewhat rough) is hard anodized coated for prevent flex. The front plate is much beefier than stock so these pumps withstand more pressure and higher rpm's without becoming a broken fire hydrant.

The blueprinted 296 that LPE is selling is top notch and well worth the money.

When it comes to hard launches or hard lateral acceleration, the oil pump is only good as long as there is oil to be pumped. The oil pan and it's poor design is the second problem in the equation. The oil leaves the pickup tube and the pump sucks air. As great as air is, it's a piss poor lubricant. This is why I've spent so much time developing the oil pans I have for the TBSS guys.
 

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TrailblazerSS RWD
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Discussion Starter #24
Great answer... thanks man.

I saw your oil pan system and it looks like a great unit. The only thing is that I honestly do not run my car very hard at all. I may only get on it a few times a week (90% of those times from a roll and I am off it before 100mph) and after 40k miles still haven't made it to the track. I just cannot justify another 500 + install for this mod at this time considering the use of my vehicle.

I do, on the otherhand, see a few issues with guys spinning bearings, specifically #6, and do not want to fall victim to that. Is adding something like the LEP a good 1st step of insurance against such issues, or is it simply not enough due to the oil pan issues mentioned and am I wasting my 170+ install if I only do that mod.

Thanks,

Mark
 

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Great answer... thanks man.

I saw your oil pan system and it looks like a great unit. The only thing is that I honestly do not run my car very hard at all. I may only get on it a few times a week (90% of those times from a roll and I am off it before 100mph) and after 40k miles still haven't made it to the track. I just cannot justify another 500 + install for this mod at this time considering the use of my vehicle.

I do, on the otherhand, see a few issues with guys spinning bearings, specifically #6, and do not want to fall victim to that. Is adding something like the LEP a good 1st step of insurance against such issues, or is it simply not enough due to the oil pan issues mentioned and am I wasting my 170+ install if I only do that mod.

Thanks,

Mark
Understand that I nor RPM makes a solitary penny off the Moroso pan kit and is why you RWD TBSS owners desiring such has to deal with Moroso instead of RPM. Going through the hassle of designing such, making the phone calls and getting the product under way was solely based on talking with entirely too many that couldn't keep their engines together due to oiling problems and I got tired of waiting for someone to do something about it. Having a company like Moroso make the pan kits makes it cheaper for the consumer for what I could make them for. As for the AWD guys, they don't share such the same luxury as to produce an aftermarket pan would cost as much as a decent short block assembly. I don't really have the time to do so but I've devoted myself to the ordeal and is modifying the OEM AWD pans to solve the oiling problems for those who desire such. With time spent, parts and materials costs, RPM is barely breaking even on these modded pan kits for the AWD guys. I'm doing it for no other reason than it needs to be done and people need to be able to run without worries once and for all. Having the knowledge to solve an issue makes one feel guilty every time a failure story is told and knowing one could have helped prevent it.

With all that said:

What most of you guys don't realize is that when your engine is running, all 6qt's of oil is not in the oil pan anymore. The oil capacity is in the oil galleries of the block, a lot of it is trying to "run" back down into the pan, a lot of it is now windage or "oil spray" that is being thrown about and tossed around as the engine internals rotate. The higher the RPM the worse all this becomes. What you're essentially left with is about 3 to 3 1/2 quarts of oil actually in the sump of the pan. If doesn't take a whole lot to slosh 3 quarts of liquid out from under a pickup tube especially in a poorly designed oil pan. At any point that an oil pump takes a gulp of air instead of the liquid it's pumping, bad things happen. In terms of lubricating liquid, detrimental things happen although they're small each time. Enough times equals parts failure that seems "sudden". When one uprades to a higher volume pump, there is even more oil being pumped out of the pan and the oil starvation risk is actually heightened.

If you were to purchase a LEP or just the Melling 296, I would strongly suggest the oil pan. If you choose not to upgrade the oil pan at this time then I would recommend the Melling 295. The 295 is standard volume/standard pressure (I recommend shimming for added pressure). At least you'll get away from the "broken fire hydrant" effect of the stock pump.

~Billy
 

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TrailblazerSS RWD
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Discussion Starter #26
Thanks Billy,

I wasn't saying you guys overpriced the unit, or priced it unfairly, just that for my application and the fact that I really do not push the car hard it is hard to justify the fact that this unit will cost me around a thousand dollars by the time I have it installed (I do not have the tools or knowledge to do it myself). Like I said, 99% of the time I am either on cruise control or soft pedaling it around town.

I am sure the unit is fantastic and will consider it if I have another grand to play with, but for my application I just could not justify it at this time.

Thanks for the info though!

I am sure I am not the only one who benefited from it.
 

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Understand that I nor RPM makes a solitary penny off the Moroso pan kit and is why you RWD TBSS owners desiring such has to deal with Moroso instead of RPM. Going through the hassle of designing such, making the phone calls and getting the product under way was solely based on talking with entirely too many that couldn't keep their engines together due to oiling problems and I got tired of waiting for someone to do something about it. Having a company like Moroso make the pan kits makes it cheaper for the consumer for what I could make them for. As for the AWD guys, they don't share such the same luxury as to produce an aftermarket pan would cost as much as a decent short block assembly. I don't really have the time to do so but I've devoted myself to the ordeal and is modifying the OEM AWD pans to solve the oiling problems for those who desire such. With time spent, parts and materials costs, RPM is barely breaking even on these modded pan kits for the AWD guys. I'm doing it for no other reason than it needs to be done and people need to be able to run without worries once and for all. Having the knowledge to solve an issue makes one feel guilty every time a failure story is told and knowing one could have helped prevent it.

With all that said:

What most of you guys don't realize is that when your engine is running, all 6qt's of oil is not in the oil pan anymore. The oil capacity is in the oil galleries of the block, a lot of it is trying to "run" back down into the pan, a lot of it is now windage or "oil spray" that is being thrown about and tossed around as the engine internals rotate. The higher the RPM the worse all this becomes. What you're essentially left with is about 3 to 3 1/2 quarts of oil actually in the sump of the pan. If doesn't take a whole lot to slosh 3 quarts of liquid out from under a pickup tube especially in a poorly designed oil pan. At any point that an oil pump takes a gulp of air instead of the liquid it's pumping, bad things happen. In terms of lubricating liquid, detrimental things happen although they're small each time. Enough times equals parts failure that seems "sudden". When one uprades to a higher volume pump, there is even more oil being pumped out of the pan and the oil starvation risk is actually heightened.

If you were to purchase a LEP or just the Melling 296, I would strongly suggest the oil pan. If you choose not to upgrade the oil pan at this time then I would recommend the Melling 295. The 295 is standard volume/standard pressure (I recommend shimming for added pressure). At least you'll get away from the "broken fire hydrant" effect of the stock pump.

~Billy



:biggrin2:Well said!
 

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Thanks Billy,

I wasn't saying you guys overpriced the unit, or priced it unfairly, just that for my application and the fact that I really do not push the car hard it is hard to justify the fact that this unit will cost me around a thousand dollars by the time I have it installed (I do not have the tools or knowledge to do it myself). Like I said, 99% of the time I am either on cruise control or soft pedaling it around town.

I am sure the unit is fantastic and will consider it if I have another grand to play with, but for my application I just could not justify it at this time.

Thanks for the info though!

I am sure I am not the only one who benefited from it.
It's cool man, I didn't think you were downing the price or anything of the sort. I just wanted to clear the air about why I push the use of the pans. I wanted it to be clear that all my involvement in the development of the pans and the pushing of them isn't to fill my pockets but to help TBSS owners from emptying their needlessly down the road. :)

Good luck man.
 

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I need one of these for an AWD!!! :( Thanks for all your work Billy!!!!
 

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TrailblazerSS
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dude we get you, you worry too much

It's cool man, I didn't think you were downing the price or anything of the sort. I just wanted to clear the air about why I push the use of the pans. I wanted it to be clear that all my involvement in the development of the pans and the pushing of them isn't to fill my pockets but to help TBSS owners from emptying their needlessly down the road. :)

Good luck man.
Always going to be people that complain about price no getting around it. Having said that it is pretty apperent what type of guy you are. Just do what you are doing and we thank you for it!!
 

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Yeah, too bad there's not one yet for the AWD, I'd do it in a heartbeat right now while the engine's still out. I had already bought the Melling 296 from Speed when I got everything else, so I'm good there, but having the pan would make my mind that much more "at ease".
 

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Yeah, too bad there's not one yet for the AWD, I'd do it in a heartbeat right now while the engine's still out. I had already bought the Melling 296 from Speed when I got everything else, so I'm good there, but having the pan would make my mind that much more "at ease".
Gosh, kick a man when he's down why don't ya.




































I'm kidding! It does make me feel bad though. It's always so much easier to just place an order, have the company box it up and send it out the same or the following day. Unfortunately due to the complexities of the AWD pan and having to do the mods in-house, I'm not yet setup with 2 or 3 sitting on the shelf waiting for orders. I am however working very hard to make it to where it is so. I'm hoping to have the entire complete system ready for purchase by the end of January and I'm doing everything I can to keep it as cost effective as possible for you guys.

The first AWD pan should be ready by the end of next week.................I hope.
 

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TrailblazerSS RWD
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Discussion Starter #33
lol guys....

I wasn't complaining at all! I just don't have another G to spend on my truck right now. If I did I would be placing an order!

I think it is a great product and a fair price, just not a price that my wife will let me put into the truck after I did a tranny build, converter, efans, and cam this year already!

- Mark
 

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2007 AWD
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IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, BILLY! :bum: :rofl:

Is there a way to replace the oil pan without yanking the entire engine again?
 
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