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Old Feb-18-08, 05:33 PM   #1
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Default Aeroforce Gauge

I am thinking of buying the aeroforce gauge and i was wondering what you guys that have it think about it and where the best place to buy it from?

Thanks
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Old Feb-18-08, 06:06 PM   #2
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Great gauge!
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Old Feb-18-08, 06:21 PM   #3
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Consider the DashHawk instead unless you are really sold on mounting it in the SS bung.

The DashHawk will do about 3 times more and the feature list grows all the time. Not to mention you have the option to log and load to your PC for review.
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Old Feb-21-08, 01:15 PM   #4
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yes, i've been wondering the main differences of either the dashhawk or aeroforce over the other. i like the look of the aeroforce better, but what all more can the dashhawk do?

and the aeroforce cannot plug into a computer at all?
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Old Feb-21-08, 02:02 PM   #5
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The Aero is a nice guage. I just cant do near the stuff the DashHawk can. Not even close.

http://www.ss-shootout.com/dashhawk.html

And no, the Aero cant be connected to a computer to get info.
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Old Feb-22-08, 01:22 PM   #6
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cool, thanks for the link! so, the dashhawk can control efans? like turn them on? i know alvin has a switch for the LS1 fan, but i was interested in the new C6 fans he's got. can it control those? and when it says 'control' aftermarket fans, does that just mean manually switching them on and off? thanks again
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Old Feb-22-08, 01:30 PM   #7
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I have the aeroforce... the gauge itself is really nice, but somewhat limited for logging purposes. If you just need a nice multipurpose gauge to monitor some key paramaters its a good choice.

The company itself however leaves A LOT to be desired. I got mine as part of a GB on silveradoss.com and a number of them were shipped defective, mine included. Took forever to get in contact with them, no support, no communicaitons, pretty much no response from them at all.
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Old Feb-22-08, 01:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Drumguy999 View Post
cool, thanks for the link! so, the dashhawk can control efans? like turn them on? i know alvin has a switch for the LS1 fan, but i was interested in the new C6 fans he's got. can it control those? and when it says 'control' aftermarket fans, does that just mean manually switching them on and off? thanks again
Controls LS1 fans but not C6 fans. And yes its a manual switching off and one. Stil have to get your truck tuned for the fans to work automatically.
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Old Feb-22-08, 01:48 PM   #9
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ok cool, thanks guys! i mean i like the aeroforce one better for mounting purposes. and i'm not sure i need all the data logging capabilities, as i'm a dumbass when it comes down to the nitty gritty of all the parameters, etc, but im thinking i'll def go with the dashhawk just for the flexibility of it. i know i need a tune for the fans, i'm just trying to get everything sorted out before i buy and regret it later. also, i was kind of thinking the LS1 fans just because of the price difference.


as for the fans, what are the big benefit of these C6 fans over LS1 except for the variable speed? is there anything else that makes them better? im not sure what PWM stands for or whatever its called, lol.
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Old Feb-22-08, 01:52 PM   #10
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PWM stands for pulse width modulated. Its just the technology GM uses to control the speed. They use it in other areas as well like fuel solenoids.

But the advantage of C6 fans in my opinion is noise. The LS1 fan comes on at 100% when the truck tells it to cool. The C6 will come on and lets say 25% and only ramp up if needed. So the C6 PWM is just more intelligent. They both cool perfect.
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Old Feb-22-08, 02:11 PM   #11
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ah, sweet thanks for the info. i dont go to the track much, so would it be all that great to be able to turn the fan on in staging lanes, etc? (and does running the fans in the staging lanes really help that much?) or would the noise factor be worth it to not have that control over them as far as the PWM fans are concerned? are the LS1 fans really all that loud?
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Old Feb-22-08, 02:19 PM   #12
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Well they do help in the staging lanes but not that big of deal.

The LS1 fans are not "that noisy". I just prefer the PWM as they are a little more refined. They don't jolt your electrical system as much as the "typical" LS1 kit.

I said typical because Alvin at PCMforless offers a soft start module with the LS1 kits he sells so they dont come on at full FLA and blink your lights etc.
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Old Feb-22-08, 03:51 PM   #13
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ok cool. is that included in his LS1 wiring kit? i had planned on getting the efans, trans cooler, tstat, and tune through him anyway
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Old Feb-22-08, 03:55 PM   #14
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Best to PM him and see. I really dont know the details of what comes with what.

Good stuff though. He has a lot of happy customers.
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Old Feb-29-08, 10:42 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrmccabe View Post
The Aero is a nice guage. I just cant do near the stuff the DashHawk can. Not even close.

http://www.ss-shootout.com/dashhawk.html

And no, the Aero cant be connected to a computer to get info.
Give me a break rrmccabe, 3 times? I think the objective review would be pretty much a tie, depending on what's important to you. I can't stand when someone skews facts to further promote their own agenda. I don't know much about the ss-shootout site but it's full of dashhawk promos and their vendors. No wonder the comparison is so inaccurate and biased.

The Aeroforce gauge has fan controls, it does the CASE re-learn, and it can reset the fuel trims. It has had these for months.

Don't minimize the advantage of having analog inputs for additional sensors. The Dashhawk does not have this. I'm reading A/F ratio, boost from my supercharger, and intercooler fluid temperature on the Aeroforce gauge. Don't fool yourself (or others) into thinking this isn't important. We've had these for 2 years.

The Aeroforce has high intensity LED's that can be used as warning lights when a parameter is beyond a safe threshold, including analog inputs. I believe the competition may alter the display to perform the same function but this is not nearly as attention grabbing as separate high intensity lights.

Keep in mind that these are gauges, meant to be installed full time in a vehicle. Neither of these are true scan tools, and looks are important to some people, especially on a vehicle like the Trailblazer SS. The Aeroforce has a significant advantage in the looks department.

Using cyclic scan you can read 8 parameters on our gauge without touching anything. It's a lot easier to read these 8 on our brighter display than even 6 on the Dashhawk.

How about being a little more realistic about the parameter support as well. Those 100 parameters you mentioned include things like absolute throttle position A through F, wideband sensor 1-8, alcohol %, EGR error, plus numerous others that don't apply or are irrelevant to 99% or the people who would use this type of product. Come on, if your'e going to analyze a problem that in depth that you need to monitor absolute throttle position E and EGR error get a real scan tool.

Our gauges came out almost two years before the Dashhawk, we're the innovators, not the imitation. The Aeroforce gauge is also made right here in the USA. I have not heard where the Dashhawk is made.

The ideal solution in my opinion is to have something that integrates well with the interior and looks good, as well as a real scan tool for in depth analysis (which neither of the gauges are). With the Aeroforce there's no need to remove it at car shows or cruise-ins, it enhances the interior rather than detracts from it.

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Old Feb-29-08, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrmccabe View Post
The Aero is a nice guage. I just cant do near the stuff the DashHawk can. Not even close.

http://www.ss-shootout.com/dashhawk.html

And no, the Aero cant be connected to a computer to get info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan06SS View Post
I have the aeroforce... the gauge itself is really nice, but somewhat limited for logging purposes. If you just need a nice multipurpose gauge to monitor some key paramaters its a good choice.

The company itself however leaves A LOT to be desired. I got mine as part of a GB on silveradoss.com and a number of them were shipped defective, mine included. Took forever to get in contact with them, no support, no communicaitons, pretty much no response from them at all.
As I've said before, I'm sorry you had trouble getting a hold of us. I don't recall the details of that isolated case but I apologize again. However, we typically get glowing comments on our customer service. We have a forum for tech questions and I try to answer every email within 24 hours.

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Old Feb-29-08, 12:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
As I've said before, I'm sorry you had trouble getting a hold of us. I don't recall the details of that isolated case but I apologize again. However, we typically get glowing comments on our customer service. We have a forum for tech questions and I try to answer every email within 24 hours.

Todd
Todd,

I do commend you for taking care of the problems with that GB, and I am very happy with the product itself. It was just an extremely frustrating experience contacting you. Questions went long periods of time unanswered on your tech forum, I made specific requests via email, PM, the tech forum about the return shipping which were not met/acknowledged.

Hell... I even put a typed note in the box w/ the gauge when I sent it back with the specifics on return shipping... your customer service didn't seem to be "glowing" in my particular instance.

I do hope it was an isolated case, but seeing as I have only had one dealing with your company this is all I have to base my opinion on. Hopefully we'll have a chance to do business again in the future and the experience will be better.
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Old Feb-29-08, 12:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
I think the objective review would be pretty much a tie, depending on what's important to you. I can't stand when someone skews facts to further promote their own agenda. I don't know much about the ss-shootout site but it's full of DashHawk promos and their vendors. No wonder the comparison is so inaccurate and biased.
Todd, the review was objective and the shootout site has no agenda or loyalties to any product or vendor. If you see errors I will be happy to correct them once I know them as fact. So not sure what you think my "agenda" is but I can assure you its only to help my fellow TBSS owners. The products on that site were all Paid for by me (at full retail) for my truck.

The side by side comparison is data compiled from your site and theirs. So its not my intention to skew anything. The site is not full of DashHawk promos. It has a review and a page for DashHawk. There is a page for chrome OEM wheels, billet catch cans and Alvin's tranny cooler as well as others. The DashHawk receives no special attention

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
The Aeroforce gauge has fan controls, it does the CASE re-learn, and it can reset the fuel trims. It has had these for months.
I will be happy to update that on the shootout site. If you add anything in the future and the information becomes inaccurate and you would like it changed then let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
Neither of these are true scan tools, and looks are important to some people, especially on a vehicle like the Trailblazer SS. The Aeroforce has a significant advantage in the looks department.
I don't agree with you on the first part. The DashHawk is in fact a true scan tool. Its only limited by the amount of time it can scan and the number of PIDs it can scan at once. It will scan everything the "true" scan tools will scan (short of the analog which is coming). As a matter of fact, I know of at least three vendors that have adjusted tunes based on feedback the DashHawk has logged. No way to do that with the Aeroforce. As far as the looks part, you might be right. I think the DashHawk looks good but the shape makes it a challenge to mount. But on the other hand you just cant cram something that will show 7 PIDS at once into something that will fit in the round SS hole in the dash. Similar to me viewing this forum on my new cell phone. Just doesn't work real well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
Using cyclic scan you can read 8 parameters on our guage without touching anything. It's a lot easier to read these 8 on our brighter display than even 6 on the Dashhawk.
I disagree with this comment. I think that cyclic scan is about useless unless you just want to watch a few things running down the road. Cycle 8 things and its going to take me as long to figure out which one its on let alone interpret the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
The Aeroforce has high intensity LED's that can be used as warning lights when a parameter is beyond a safe threshold, including analog inputs. I believe the competition may alter the display to perform the same function but this is not nearly as attention grabbing as separate high intensity lights.
I can't say if your high intensity lights are more "attention grabbing" than Dashhawks user configurable colors with audible warning. I know I can have my eyes closed and I still know when the DashHawk is in alarm mode. I assume yours has the same audible function as well???? Oh, maybe not. I check checked your site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
Those 100 parameters you mentioned include things like absolute throttle position A through F, wideband sensor 1-8, alcohol %, EGR error, plus numerous others that don't apply or are irrelevant to 99% or the people who would use this type of product.
As I said I took the available PID's from both sites. I agree. There are things that might be redundant and don't apply. Maybe I will add a footnote to that effect on the shootout site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
Our gauges came out almost two years before the Dashhawk, we're the innovators, not the imitation. The Aeroforce guage is also made right here in the USA. I have not heard where the Dashhawk is made.
Well I could turn that around and say the DashHawk came out for our trucks before the Aeroforce because it really did. I don't remember the release date of the Aeroforce but I do remember you telling me (and others) it will be out next month, next month, next month, next month..... I finally gave up and bought the DashHawk. So in reality MSD's experience with this particular bus goes further back than yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forcefedjunkie View Post
The ideal solution in my opinion is to have something that integrates well with the interior and looks good, as well as a real scan tool for in depth analysis (which neither of the gauges are). With the Aeroforce there's no need to remove it at car shows or cruise-ins, it enhances the interior rather than detracts from it.
I agree the ideal solution would be to have a guage and real scan tool which is exactly what the DashHawk is. But, if you are referring to something like HPTtuners where you can scan and modify your tune, I agree with that as well. But the fact of the matter is that 80% of the users are not going to spring for an Aeroforce or DashHawk and HPTuners combo.


I have nothing against the Aeroforce. I think its a nice piece and if it will meet your needs then its the thing to buy. But if you want a lot more for about the same price the DashHawk wins hands down.
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Old Feb-29-08, 12:50 PM   #19
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The Aeroforce has high intensity LED's that can be used as warning lights when a parameter is beyond a safe threshold, including analog inputs. I believe the competition may alter the display to perform the same function but this is not nearly as attention grabbing as separate high intensity lights.
You don't think the screen flashing and an audible ALARM isn't attention grabbing?

Quote:
Keep in mind that these are gauges, meant to be installed full time in a vehicle.
True for Aeroforce, but not Dashhawk ... it is very easy to move between vehicles (and it is encouraged). Different intended use ... DashHawk is more along the lines of an XM unit or GPS unit or something, Aeroforce is more along the lines of a "built in" gauge. Both work well depending on your needs.

Quote:
Using cyclic scan you can read 8 parameters on our gauge without touching anything. It's a lot easier to read these 8 on our brighter display than even 6 on the Dashhawk.
In your opinion ... (it's seven BTW and it can show up to 11 separate screens with up to 7 PIDs each with a key press to change screens. For similar readability, 4 PIDs per screen would be more legible, granted ...)

Different approaches to the same problem (only so much real estate to display the data).

Quote:
...100 parameters you mentioned include things like absolute throttle position A through F, wideband sensor 1-8, alcohol %, EGR error, plus numerous others that don't apply or are irrelevant to 99% or the people who would use this type of product. Come on, if your'e going to analyze a problem that in depth that you need to monitor absolute throttle position E and EGR error get a real scan tool.
Because it'll show something different? No? Then it's a moot point ....

To be more accurate, the amount of parms supported by ANY DashHawk (and not a specific one for a specific vehicle) is now closing in on 300 PIDs including many many specific PIDs for many makes and manufacturers. It autoconfigures to display the available PIDs for that car when you plug it in. Again, a difference in approach ... a nice gauge that can be tailored to an installation or a more "generic" display that can be used in different vehicles. Depends on what a person wants and one or the other might be better for their intended use ...

Quote:
Our gauges came out almost two years before the Dashhawk, we're the innovators, not the imitation. The Aeroforce gauge is also made right here in the USA. I have not heard where the Dashhawk is made.
It's made in Ogden, Utah US of A (and some components in Salt Lake City, some of the molding coming from Arizona, and some of printed materials coming from El Paso, TX) ... and WHO was the first one to do CAN? Not Aeroforce, BTW. As you can see, it's not a matter of imitation, it's an evolution of products/platforms that existed in Edge's inventory (long before Aeroforce's gauges, if that matters). That probably wasn't a fair statement ...

Now that the shots have been answered, ...

You know me Todd (I'm assuming Todd King?) ... from the Buick days .... and I'm of the opinion this certainly doesn't need to be a "my Dad can beat up your Dad" type of thread. Rich's shootout site is HIS site with no ties to MSD, other than he was a very early customer and has been active at the customer level (usually hammering us with what we did wrong in the latest firmware/software version!!) as he is with all aspects of his TBSS. If it's a tune, a torque converter, or a stereo, Rich has posted an opinion on it in his site ... and it is HIS opinion whether it's shared by others or not. The good thing about the Shoot Out site ... he does back his opinion up with his experiences and his results. I've found many valuable tidbits of what to look for as you mod your truck through his documentation and testing (to the point where I decided to forego the stall converter since I want to tow our camper ... especially with his various transmission adventures! )

Also, for the record ...

I'm involved here because I own a TBSS (and a GTO) and just like in the early days of the Buicks and TurboLink, I was involved in development of something I wanted for MY stuff. There were no CAN capable portable products out there when I bought my GTO in 2005 ... I was working on some neat CAN based stuff with OEMs and Edge/MSD back then. Looked at the various "toys" available in the various parts bins (Edge and MotoTron) and we cooked up a CAN device that worked pretty sweet... and eventually became the DashHawk.

In the end, I agree with your earlier assessment that it comes down to what a person wants for what they find important in THEIR vehicle or vehicles. They are both fine products and there's room for a lot of opinions and options amongst users. I have a lot of respect for your efforts and understand the pride you feel for what you've done, but before throwing stones you should look around you.
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Old Feb-29-08, 02:43 PM   #20
forcefedjunkie
 
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Real Name: Todd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrmccabe View Post
Todd, the review was objective and the shootout site has no agenda or loyalties to any product or vendor. If you see errors I will be happy to correct them once I know them as fact. So not sure what you think my "agenda" is but I can assure you its only to help my fellow TBSS owners. The products on that site were all Paid for by me (at full retail) for my truck.

The side by side comparison is data compiled from your site and theirs. So its not my intention to skew anything. The site is not full of DashHawk promos. It has a review and a page for DashHawk. There is a page for chrome OEM wheels, billet catch cans and Alvin's tranny cooler as well as others. The DashHawk receives no special attention



I will be happy to update that on the shootout site. If you add anything in the future and the information becomes inaccurate and you would like it changed then let me know.



I don't agree with you on the first part. The DashHawk is in fact a true scan tool. Its only limited by the amount of time it can scan and the number of PIDs it can scan at once. It will scan everything the "true" scan tools will scan (short of the analog which is coming). As a matter of fact, I know of at least three vendors that have adjusted tunes based on feedback the DashHawk has logged. No way to do that with the Aeroforce. As far as the looks part, you might be right. I think the DashHawk looks good but the shape makes it a challenge to mount. But on the other hand you just cant cram something that will show 7 PIDS at once into something that will fit in the round SS hole in the dash. Similar to me viewing this forum on my new cell phone. Just doesn't work real well.



I disagree with this comment. I think that cyclic scan is about useless unless you just want to watch a few things running down the road. Cycle 8 things and its going to take me as long to figure out which one its on let alone interpret the results.



I can't say if your high intensity lights are more "attention grabbing" than Dashhawks user configurable colors with audible warning. I know I can have my eyes closed and I still know when the DashHawk is in alarm mode. I assume yours has the same audible function as well???? Oh, maybe not. I check checked your site.



As I said I took the available PID's from both sites. I agree. There are things that might be redundant and don't apply. Maybe I will add a footnote to that effect on the shootout site.



Well I could turn that around and say the DashHawk came out for our trucks before the Aeroforce because it really did. I don't remember the release date of the Aeroforce but I do remember you telling me (and others) it will be out next month, next month, next month, next month..... I finally gave up and bought the DashHawk. So in reality MSD's experience with this particular bus goes further back than yours.



I agree the ideal solution would be to have a guage and real scan tool which is exactly what the DashHawk is. But, if you are referring to something like HPTtuners where you can scan and modify your tune, I agree with that as well. But the fact of the matter is that 80% of the users are not going to spring for an Aeroforce or DashHawk and HPTuners combo.


I have nothing against the Aeroforce. I think its a nice piece and if it will meet your needs then its the thing to buy. But if you want a lot more for about the same price the DashHawk wins hands down.
I do not believe you can honestly say that either gauge does "a lot more" or "3 times" more than the other. That's like saying a GTO is 3x better than a Trailblazer SS. How can you objectively say that? Both have their strengths. Obviously you value datalogging a few parameters more highly than monitoring such things as A/F ratio, boost, etc. Dashhawk is considerably more expensive as well. If you ever get the ability to monitor external inputs, will it cost you even more? No extra cost here.

I did not know the Dashhawk had an audible alarm. Our LED's are definitely more noticable than the flashing backlight, but perhaps the audible alarm evens it out.

I almost always use cyclic scan, 95% of the time as I bet most do. I don't understand your comment unless all you make is 1/4 mile passes. I set it to scroll through trans temp, coolant temp, mpg, intake air temp, ambient air temp, oil pressure, oil temp, and Intercooler temp. These are all important (to me) to watch, especially on longer trips. There's really no need to watch these all at the exact same moment, and I can monitor them all without touching the gauge.

I've seen a local TBSS owner use a Dashhawk for logging, it's no comparison to HPTuners or EFI Live, both of which I have. It's not even worth my time to compare, night and day. I'll admit that our Interceptor is no comparison to HPTuners as a scan tool either. It sure makes a better gauge though

I did not set out to start an "us vs them" arguement but this thread is called "Aeroforce gauge". It irks me that someone immediately has to hijack it to promote some other product, and then doesn't even give a factual representation of both sides. Both products have their merits and objectively speaking their pros and cons balance each other out. It's all a matter of what your personal priorities are. I felt compelled to set the record straight.

Todd
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Last edited by forcefedjunkie; Feb-29-08 at 02:50 PM.
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