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4L70E Transmission Help Tranny Info and Upgrades including torque converters (stall)

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Old Jul-02-08, 10:37 AM   #1
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Default What is known and tried with 0MPH speedometer when a stall converter is installed?

I would like to know what is known about this and what has been tried and failed.

I am going to take a crack at solving this issue with a black box that modifies ECM inputs. Tricking computer if you will. If you have seen my chime kill mod you know how hardcore it will get.

It will be fun to try and give me an excuse to install that Yank...

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Old Jul-02-08, 10:59 AM   #2
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Go for it! But my question is...why worry about it? It only happens when you drop the throttle from a standing start.
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Old Jul-02-08, 11:16 AM   #3
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My question is if EFIlive does the same thing, I would experiment through EFIlive myself but I don't have a stall (yet). Maybe at that point, you'd know if its in the way HPT figures the PID.

Jay
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Old Jul-02-08, 01:40 PM   #4
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I think its deeper than most think. I know some of the tuners took some stabs at it. I don't know if HPT or EFI has access to the tables required. I really dont think they would.

I suspect it will take some custom OS work. I think input and output shaft speeds run pretty deep into the system.
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Old Jul-02-08, 03:01 PM   #5
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My question is if EFIlive does the same thing, I would experiment through EFIlive myself but I don't have a stall (yet). Maybe at that point, you'd know if its in the way HPT figures the PID.

Jay
Efilive is the same way, it is weird though it will go to like 3 mph and then zero.
Odd thing is my dashhawk has worked from a stab a few times
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Old Jul-02-08, 04:03 PM   #6
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Efilive is the same way, it is weird though it will go to like 3 mph and then zero.
Odd thing is my dashhawk has worked from a stab a few times
Jake I have heard a lot of guys with smaller stalls say the DashHawk works when the speedo dont. So it must sample a little different...Wierd !

I really think the issue is much deeper than the backyard guys can touch. I wish Chris at Vector would get off his butt and take a look at it. He has the best ties at "resources" for that kind of stuff.

So Chris, get off your butt !! LOL
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Old Jul-02-08, 05:04 PM   #7
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I'm thinking it has got to be something with the relationship with the input speed sensor as related to engine RPM thats throwing it out. While standing still and stalling up, the ISS and VSS both read 0. But shortly after launching the ISS will rise sharply to eventually come relativly close to engine RPM. The relation ship between the ISS and the VSS is a given value depending on what gear ratio is selected. The TCM knows what to expect as far as the difference between the two goes. It the TCM sees a deviation of that, then slipping trans DTCs get thrown. So I doubt it has much to do with the relationship between the ISS and VSS but has more to do with how fast the ISS rises in relation to the engine RPM. When you add a stall the rate that the ISS rises vs. RPM is the only thing that has changed compared to a stock vehicle. What y'all think?

If I had a stall, I could also plot it with my Tech2 to see if the VSS signal actually drops out for some reason. Or the VSS could be tapped into with a DVOM to see if for some reason the sensor is actually dropping out or is it a fluke with the TCM calculating the VSS signal. If its an error within the TCM, then there will be no fixing it.

BTW, does the speedo on the dash drop out as well when this occurs?

Jay
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Old Jul-02-08, 08:08 PM   #8
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Jake I have heard a lot of guys with smaller stalls say the DashHawk works when the speedo dont. So it must sample a little different...Wierd !

I really think the issue is much deeper than the backyard guys can touch. I wish Chris at Vector would get off his butt and take a look at it. He has the best ties at "resources" for that kind of stuff.

So Chris, get off your butt !! LOL
I have a vig 2800-3000 stall

Jay dash is zero till you get out of it then jumps up
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Old Jul-02-08, 08:27 PM   #9
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Maybe you can use the pulse signals from the wheel speed sensors (ABS) and pull it off!
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Old Jul-02-08, 08:40 PM   #10
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I dont know why they need to make it so complicated for anyway. All you need is the tailshaft speed from trans. Like they have been doing for over 75 years.

I am sure they are using that calculation for something and just decided to pull the pulse out somewhere else.
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Old Jul-03-08, 01:29 AM   #11
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GM cares about something they should not. The difference between Trans and converter and converter clutch slip. I figure the input sensor is for sensing trans slip under hard acceleration when the converter clutch is off. Perhaps it was intended to back off the throttle if the trans started slipping badly at WOT? This would be an improvement over the older trans and converter combined slippage code.

Well guess what the trans is going to be toast before the code is thrown and by walking you will know that yes the damn thing is really slipping! Converter clutch or trans slipping? Who cares! The entire trans has to come out and both get serviced during the rebuild. Does it matter if it was the converter or the trans clutches? Point of interest maybe.

Maybe they need a code to justify transmission repair as part of cost cutting?

Anyway I figure to tap the front trans sensor and make it follow engine RPM within factory stall of 1900 RPM. This will look like huge trans slippage, but as I point out that code is useless.

What would happen if the front sensor just flat quit? Limp mode?
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Old Jul-03-08, 01:34 AM   #12
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Go for it! But my question is...why worry about it? It only happens when you drop the throttle from a standing start.
State law requires an accurate speedo.

Who doesn't drop the throttle from a standing start? You really need to know when you hit the speed limit so you can back out.

Um, nothing better to do?
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Old Jul-03-08, 05:42 AM   #13
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i think luis may be on to something with the wheel sensors....that is a viable work around that could be tapped into with HPTuners or EFILive and ploted in a scan log file, this would help me at the track with ACTUAL speeds and rpm to do my tranny tuning with....
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Old Jul-03-08, 06:10 AM   #14
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i think luis may be on to something with the wheel sensors....that is a viable work around that could be tapped into with HPTuners or EFILive and ploted in a scan log file, this would help me at the track with ACTUAL speeds and rpm to do my tranny tuning with....
Get a G-tech. Wanna try one? I will send one down for you to play with.
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Old Jul-03-08, 07:35 AM   #15
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Get a G-tech. Wanna try one? I will send one down for you to play with.
i have one in the garage and it has laid exactly in the same spot as when my homie gave it to me....

i would just like to have MPH in my logs.....just more data to tune with....
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Old Jul-03-08, 09:12 AM   #16
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I'm looking at the diagrams and the troubleshooting tables to see if all the sensors work on the same frequency ....
We shall see!
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Old Jul-03-08, 09:27 AM   #17
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leftcoast joe just clued me into a possible LOGGING fix.....

log the tranny output shaft rpm.....with that log you can create a guage that takes that and create an equation to multiply the tranny shaft rpm X gear ratio X tire height to calculate MPH......

I WANT MPH in my logs....and i could careless how i get it......
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Old Jul-03-08, 07:19 PM   #18
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The only other thing I can think of is doing a code segment swap with the same PCM model different car. Like GTO, Vette, to TBSS. This would be for the transmission code and VSS only. Just to bypass the TBSS specific issue via cutting support for the 'new' sensor.
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Old Jul-03-08, 07:22 PM   #19
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The only other thing I can think of is doing a code segment swap with the same PCM model different car. Like GTO, Vette, to TBSS. This would be for the transmission code and VSS only. Just to bypass the TBSS specific issue via cutting support for the 'new' sensor.
suburban 4L70E has already been done and NO GO on a fix thus far....
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Old Jul-03-08, 07:49 PM   #20
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Pat - get an '07 and you will have MPH in your logs.....I'll trade ya.
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