Need help with nitrous

[Texas07SS]

Hey everyone I recently installed a nitrous system on my friends wife's TrailBlazer SS and we finally got to take it out to the track to see what it would run on a 75 shot.

So the problem is when we launched it it tryed to take off nicely but then bogged. it jumped about 3 times then we turned the nitrous off to finish the pass. Then we were messing around on the highway going home and when we sprayed it it goes to 7k rpm and over revs.

So my question is what can i do to fix it where it launches and wont over rev. Ppl have told me to get a window switch and program it to spray at certian rpm's but the funny thing is, I have the same kit on my 2000 Silverado Z71 spraying the same 75 shot and my truck takes it fine. it launches nicely and it shifts like its supposed to.

Any and all help is appreciated

Thanks,
Steven S. Davis

[Atv Pro]

Steve, did you guys tune this thing on a dyno or check the a/f? The bogging down seems like to much of one or the other. Most likey fuel, I think. But you are loading it up.
I would lower the shift points so it won't bounce off the limiter. We had to drop mine a considerable amount to keep it off the limiter.

[Texas07SS]

Steve, did you guys tune this thing on a dyno or check the a/f? The bogging down seems like to much of one or the other. Most likey fuel, I think. But you are loading it up.
I would lower the shift points so it won't bounce off the limiter. We had to drop mine a considerable amount to keep it off the limiter.
No we havnt done anything to it. He installed the K&N cold air on it a few weeks ago and we decided to put nitrous on it because of a few races that were set up.

would it hurt it since he floors it off the line and i have it set with the throttle switch. Also his TBSS has a stock tranny and converter? Also it was telling him somthing where it says Trailblazer SS when u start it but when he turned off the spray it stopped telling him what ever it was.

We were told at the track that we needed to get a window switch to program the rpms that would spray but them not having a TBSS i wanted to get advice from ppl that have them with spray.

On a side note I have the same setup on my 2000 silverado and it works fine.

[Atv Pro]

Do you have a wet or dry kit? I don't really follow what you meant when you said something was telling him "trailblazer ss" then it went off. You must mean on the gauge cluster and dont worry about that, its irrelevant. Did you make sure the traction control and stabilitrac were off? The button on the shifter. Hold it for like 7 seconds until the burnout flashes on the cluster.

You don't really need a window switch. It'll just affect the life of the trans. I don't use one becasue I need to spray through the shifts. A window switch will only let the nitrous come on in a safe RPM range, so you dont hurt the motor, and it shuts the nitrous down so you dont spary through the shifts and hurt the trans. Thats all is does. You can get one and set it in the low 6000 range so you don't blow that thing to the moon with the revs. But the bog problem is a jetting issue it seems

What brand setup are you using. They are all a bit different and we have guys here that run them all and that can help you better if they have your kit. I myself run NOS products.

[Texas07SS]

Do you have a wet or dry kit? I don't really follow what you meant when you said something was telling him "trailblazer ss" then it went off. You must mean on the gauge cluster and dont worry about that, its irrelevant. Did you make sure the traction control and stabilitrac were off? The button on the shifter. Hold it for like 7 seconds until the burnout flashes on the cluster.

You don't really need a window switch. It'll just affect the life of the trans. I don't use one becasue I need to spray through the shifts. A window switch will only let the nitrous come on in a safe RPM range, so you dont hurt the motor, and it shuts the nitrous down so you dont spary through the shifts and hurt the trans. Thats all is does. You can get one and set it in the low 6000 range so you don't blow that thing to the moon with the revs. But the bog problem is a jetting issue it seems

What brand setup are you using. They are all a bit different and we have guys here that run them all and that can help you better if they have your kit. I myself run NOS products.
We are running a dry kit from Harris Speed Works.com. The TBSS being AWD i dont think it has traction control or stabilitrac. Is the button like the tow haul on a truck? As for the window switch that is why i'm in here asking for advice. if its going to hurt the car then we wont use it since it is a daily driver for his wife. He contacted a guy in Michigan today and he was told that hte Nitrous is freezing the mass air. I de screened it b4 i put the nitrous in it so i know its not freezing. But how ever the jet may be spraying right on the air temp sensor in the mass air. could that be a problem?

[Atv Pro]

Dry Kit, Im not to familiar with the tuning. But YES, you do have the TC / Stabilitrac button and it NEEDS to be off. I have an AWD. I run a wet kit with no problems. I would suggest going to a wet, It'll be much better and easier to tune. Did you retune the truck before descreening the MAF? I think that may be a problem as well.

[Texas07SS]

Dry Kit, Im not to familiar with the tuning. But YES, you do have the TC / Stabilitrac button and it NEEDS to be off. I have an AWD. I run a wet kit with no problems. I would suggest going to a wet, It'll be much better and easier to tune. Did you retune the truck before descreening the MAF? I think that may be a problem as well.When we have it at the track this week i'll be sure to turn it off. We were told that the dry kit would be what we need for the LS2 but we could have gotten false info. No the TB hasnt been tuned. the only things that have been done is the cold air intake, the descreening of the maf to keep from having a freeze up, and the nitrous.

When my friend bought the cold air intake the guy from michigan that he bought it from told him to get a Vector tune for it, but we couldnt figure out what the vector tune was.

So a tune on it would help it out tremendasly?

[freemaSSon]

as rich as the stock tune is u SHOULD be safe with a very small dry shot.....BUT U ARE PUSHING IT without an AFR guage to be certain where your fuel mixture is....

[Texas07SS]

as rich as the stock tune is u SHOULD be safe with a very small dry shot.....BUT U ARE PUSHING IT without an AFR guage to be certain where your fuel mixture is....

wow i've been getting a lot of false info down here then. We were told that we would be fine up to a 125 shot on it stock. I think if we dont spray it under 3k rpm's we should be fine on the launch but the over rev is what i'm worried about.

So we would need to get and install the air to fuel gauge to keep an eye on it. What should the air to fuel be on a stock setup with spray?

[Atv Pro]

Steve, I like the wet kits. Plug and play, no really issues with small shots but not as easy to install. I dont have much info on the dry kits on our trucks. Sorry.

[Texas07SS]

Steve, I like the wet kits. Plug and play, no really issues with small shots but not as easy to install. I dont have much info on the dry kits on our trucks. Sorry.

Its ok Jamie. any and all info is appreciated since i'm barely getting in to the Nitrous thing. I've seen a motor blown up because of it and now that i put it on these two vehicles i'm starting to like it. If we continue to have problems i'll convert it to a wet shot and buy another K&N filter that way it wont have an open hole.

[freemaSSon]

me personally i would not push my AFR above 12.0....with about 21 deg. of timing and set yor shift points at about 6200 rpm's on pump gas so it will preshift when on the spray.....

i have not had much experience with nitrous but i have paid very close attention over the years and feel these are VERY SAFE numbers.....the shift points are your BANE right now.....the only aftermarket tools to move shift points for us are HPTuners or EFILive.....none of the handhelds will adjust shift points.....

[Texas07SS]

me personally i would not push my AFR above 12.0....with about 21 deg. of timing and set yor shift points at about 6200 rpm's on pump gas so it will preshift when on the spray.....

i have not had much experience with nitrous but i have paid very close attention over the years and feel these are VERY SAFE numbers.....the shift points are your BANE right now.....the only aftermarket tools to move shift points for us are HPTuners or EFILive.....none of the handhelds will adjust shift points.....

does hptunners or efilive have a mail order tune we could put on it?

I'll go ahead and order the atf gauge so we can monitor it. and I may have him take it in and get the timing changed up.

I really appreciate all of the info. I've gotten more help here than anyother trailblazerSS site.

[Billyman]

No, you don't need a window switch but I do highly recommend it.

It isn't safe to spray N20 under 2500 rpms. Doing so can and will cause a nitrous backfire. With your stock converter, I know the engine isn't revving past 2500 (or any safe rpm) as it leaves the line. With using a window switch, you choose when the nitrous begins to spray and at a safe engine speed..........like that of 2500-3000 rpms. The shut off setting can save a lot of precious things such as your engine. Let's just say your TBSS leaves the line and suddenly the torque converter gives up and free spins. The engine will turn up so quickly, it will grenade before the accelerator pedal was let off of. With a shut off setting of around 5800 or so, you have a little bit of breathing room.

If you are in fact freezing the MAF (that is a possibility) then move the nozzle farther away from it.

Did you change the spark plugs upon the nitrous install?

[spddmn]

Wouldn't running 100 plus octane help with some of this? Running 91 or 93 is going to lean him out causing KR and backing the timing off. Can't really remember what ours was set at stock, but aren't most of the stock TBSS set at around 20 to maybe 21 degrees of timing? You might want to run the NGK TR6 plugs as well and gap to .035. Just a thought:dunno: But for sure change those shift points:coolthumb: Good luck and let us know!

[Atv Pro]

With my wet shot we tune for 11.5 AFR. They lowered the shift points quite a bit too. I think near 6200 or so. At an 80 shot we start pulling 4 degrees but we have added timing in the street tune. With stock timing I would keep it at 100 MAX and run high octane fuel and put some colder plugs in to be safe and youll be all set. Thats all with a wet kit. But keep in ming youre playing with fire so that trans could go at any minute. Trust me. Im on my second engine and I dont know how many times I hurt a built trans.

[freemaSSon]

No, you don't need a window switch but I do highly recommend it.

It isn't safe to spray N20 under 2500 rpms. Doing so can and will cause a nitrous backfire. With your stock converter, I know the engine isn't revving past 2500 (or any safe rpm) as it leaves the line. With using a window switch, you choose when the nitrous begins to spray and at a safe engine speed..........like that of 2500-3000 rpms. The shut off setting can save a lot of precious things such as your engine. Let's just say your TBSS leaves the line and suddenly the torque converter gives up and free spins. The engine will turn up so quickly, it will grenade before the accelerator pedal was let off of. With a shut off setting of around 5800 or so, you have a little bit of breathing room.

If you are in fact freezing the MAF (that is a possibility) then move the nozzle farther away from it.

Did you change the spark plugs upon the nitrous install?
steven this is the MASTER advising you here......this is the owner of the LSX record holding camaro that has MOUNTAINS of nitrous.....his experience would cost you HUGE DOLLARS any where else.....

[freemaSSon]

Wouldn't running 100 plus octane help with some of this? Running 91 or 93 is going to lean him out causing KR and backing the timing off. Can't really remember what ours was set at stock, but aren't most of the stock TBSS set at around 20 to maybe 21 degrees of timing? You might want to run the NGK TR6 plugs as well and gap to .035. Just a thought:dunno: But for sure change those shift points:coolthumb: Good luck and let us know!

mark u are exactly right on the timing......this is a snap shot of the timing with the higlighted area being the BASIC area the truck would run in....

[Texas07SS]

No, you don't need a window switch but I do highly recommend it.

It isn't safe to spray N20 under 2500 rpms. Doing so can and will cause a nitrous backfire. With your stock converter, I know the engine isn't revving past 2500 (or any safe rpm) as it leaves the line. With using a window switch, you choose when the nitrous begins to spray and at a safe engine speed..........like that of 2500-3000 rpms. The shut off setting can save a lot of precious things such as your engine. Let's just say your TBSS leaves the line and suddenly the torque converter gives up and free spins. The engine will turn up so quickly, it will grenade before the accelerator pedal was let off of. With a shut off setting of around 5800 or so, you have a little bit of breathing room.

If you are in fact freezing the MAF (that is a possibility) then move the nozzle farther away from it.

Did you change the spark plugs upon the nitrous install?
Yes the day we took it to the track i put in the NGK tr6 plugs.

So getting an atf Gauge and the window switch for safety would be the way to go in this case?

[Billyman]

steven this is the MASTER advising you here......this is the owner of the LSX record holding camaro that has MOUNTAINS of nitrous.....his experience would cost you HUGE DOLLARS any where else.....

Awesome!

Hi, I'm the shop manager and tech adviser for RPM-(home of the worlds fastest and quickest TBSS) and home of the 2nd world record holding nitrous LSX based, stock style suspension Camaro.

I don't need much advisement thanks.

[Texas07SS]

Awesome!

Hi, I'm the shop manager and tech adviser for RPM-(home of the worlds fastest and quickest TBSS) and home of the 2nd world record holding nitrous LSX based, stock style suspension Camaro.

I don't need much advisement thanks.

Wow. So i'm talking to a pro about this. I'm more confortable about this having ppl that have TBSS's with Nitrous. I'm getting the hang of this Nitrous thing now. so freezing the mass air.... could i trun the jet or rotate the filter so it isnt hitting the air temp?

As for my truck, Would i need to do the same thing?

[Billyman]

Hold the phone!

Keep in mind that ATV-Pro has not given any bad or false information. I agree with everything he has said. The only thing I had any problems with was the lack of push of a window switch. Too many nitrous backfires in the past on customers street cars and on our race cars not too. Not to mention the blown trannys.

ATV-PRO is giving professional quality information.

[ImpBluSS]

Seems to me the "jumping" or "bucking", however it was described, off the line would surely could be caused by the tc or stabilitrac taking over since it wasn't turned off. I'd turn it off and try again before changing a bunch of other shit. Make sure you got good gas(100 octane or so) and possibly install the plugs these guys spraying are using for safety but a 75 shot on good gas shouldn't require much timing retard. I'd have to agree about the window switch also since you are on a stock trans. You really need to get a tune from reputable tuner also. It'll give you firmer shifts and a better starting place for the addition of nitrous.

[1quicktb]

YOU MUST RUN WITH THE TRACTION CONTROL AND STABLE LOCK TURNED OFF.. That is a fuel cut off, if it breaks traction , you will blow it up.. I think you should run it through a window swith.. On at 2700, off at 6000.. It will save the tranny and save the motor if it over revs.. The truck must be tuned , On a dyno or with a wideband.. run the cold plugs in it and 93 octane.. as far as the dry kit through the mass air flow.. i would just convert it to wet with a nozzle up near the throttle body, it will make it much easier to tune and safer..JMO

[notfast]

I've never had a problem 'freezing a screened maf' on any other vehicle...l67, ls1 etc...is this maf any different?

[r33pwrd]

just put the nozzle on the down side of the MAF..... is there a reason not to?

[notfast]

well obviously you shouldnt aim the nozzle at the maf if thats what you are referencing....

people always talk of 'freezing the maf' when it has a screen...ive never had this problem...thats why i was asking if the ls2/tbss maf was special

[Atv Pro]

You guys and your window switches!! Get some balls and spray from trap to trap. All the cool kids are doing it.:kissass:

Steve, you are really much bette of with a window switch, especially on a stock trans. I run through a progessive so my nos comes in gently and I spray from then on out. Becareful spraying that much on a launch with all those stock parts.

[r33pwrd]

well obviously you shouldnt aim the nozzle at the maf if thats what you are referencing....

people always talk of 'freezing the maf' when it has a screen...ive never had this problem...thats why i was asking if the ls2/tbss maf was special

So your worried about "freezing the MAF" how is this possible if your nozle is down wind of it?

[Blindmelon]

The behind TB plates are nice also. I had my 2 stage 8" in front of TB before going plate. I use a hand button for stage 1 & a delay timer for stage 2. If I see A/F on wide band too high I get out of the button or launching if the track is blowing away I wait till I feel the tires bite then hit the button. I like the hand button control myself. Window switch for over-rev would be a good feature for safety like he said if something comes loose. Cheap insurance to not bounce off the limiter which will go boom on nitrous.

[notfast]

So your worried about "freezing the MAF" how is this possible if your nozle is down wind of it?

the term down wind is confusing me...

a dry nozzle should be before the maf (ie close to filter)...wet goes after the maf

nozzle not aimed at MAF....

[r33pwrd]

the term down wind is confusing me...

a dry nozzle should be before the maf (ie close to filter)...wet goes after the maf

nozzle not aimed at MAF....


down wind = between motor and MAF

I dont see why you need to have it before MAF?? Im not saying not to i just done see why?

[Texas07SS]

Hold the phone!

Keep in mind that ATV-Pro has not given any bad or false information. I agree with everything he has said. The only thing I had any problems with was the lack of push of a window switch. Too many nitrous backfires in the past on customers street cars and on our race cars not too. Not to mention the blown trannys.

ATV-PRO is giving professional quality information.
I didnt mean info that i am getting off of here. Down here in south texas i have friends that have nitrous on there camaro's and T/A's and they were telling us diffrent

[Team ZR-1]

the term down wind is confusing me...

a dry nozzle should be before the maf (ie close to filter)...wet goes after the maf

nozzle not aimed at MAF....

I've done several weeks of testing N20 on street, track and dyno and there is zero reason to have nozzle BEFORE the MAF.

Review my forum for all the test results.

N20 tank is around 750 PSI, why blow the N20 out a aircleaner which is the least resistance path when the nozzle closest to the throttebody assures all the N20 into the intake.
Best is a directional fogger type nozzle that forces the mist into the intake.

MAF (MASS) knows nothing about N20 nor sees it, N20 is replacing part of the air MASS and the MAF sees nothing different at all, nor is the increased air mass.

Put a OBD scanner on and test both nozzles positions and you'll see zero difference in MAF output when nozzle is before it.
I have seen MAF sensor damage which have very thin exposed wires get blown off due to the pressure of N20.

It is not until the N20 gets over 500 degrees does the O2 split out in the cylinder.

Having only 75 shot and blowing it into a aircleaner is losing the whole purpose od using N20.

Dry shot is the best path with the proper fuel injector sizes and properly tuning the PCM.
Wet is what causes most intake and fires puddling into the intake.

I use 150 dry shot mounted directly in front of TB and engine has produced 700 HP every time in over 2 years of use with no ill effects.

Most use a tank heater to keep pressure equal from full to low volume in tank thus N20 is not as cold as people think and 75 shot is very little part of the total air volume going into intake manifold

The car in this thread needs proper tuning and placement of nozzle but frankly 75 shot is not worth it where gains are really seen once over 100 shot.

[notfast]

I do not agree with a lot of stuff you just posted.

[Team ZR-1]

I do not agree with a lot of stuff you just posted.


Fine then you need to explain why in two testruns,
one has no N20 and the other has N20 before the MAF why there is not a single difference in
MAF lbs, MAF grams sec or Grms per cylinder ?
In fact tell me which of the 2 is the one with 150 shot N20 before the MAF ?

Now they you find none which also means the PCM sees no difference why blowing the N20 out the aircleaners ass is a postive ?

http://teamzr1.com/temp/tmp.jpg

[freemaSSon]

Awesome!

Hi, I'm the shop manager and tech adviser for RPM-(home of the worlds fastest and quickest TBSS) and home of the 2nd world record holding nitrous LSX based, stock style suspension Camaro.

I don't need much advisement thanks.

billy that was me quoting you and informing the original poster as to who you are.....the original poster is new here and wouldn't know you from any other poster.....

just talking you bois up and advising the original poster as to y'alls accomplishments..........

keep up the good work.....billy the camaro does belong to you correct....or is it just a shop project car......

[Saladbar]

I use 150 dry shot mounted directly in front of TB and engine has produced 700 HP every time in over 2 years of use with no ill effects.


How do you cause the injectors to fire more fuel into the cylinders? Some type of fuel pressure regulator or something?

Just curious.

[Billyman]

billy that was me quoting you and informing the original poster as to who you are.....the original poster is new here and wouldn't know you from any other poster.....

just talking you bois up and advising the original poster as to y'alls accomplishments..........

keep up the good work.....billy the camaro does belong to you correct....or is it just a shop project car......

It's cool man.

The post just kind of fell into the wrong place at the right time. Total misunderstanding is all.

No sir, the Camaro isn't mine and belongs to Brad Boone (a customer and friend). It is for sale however. Brad has stepped up to the world of 10.5 Outlaw (4 second 1/8 mile) and after going through the 1/4 mile traps--on the brakes and dragging both chutes--and still run 8.XX. A low 8 second Camaro wide open in the 1/4 isn't much fun anymore. :dunno:

We have a shop car--more specifically "Ryans car"--and it's been sitting still for a while now with all the other projects going on. We're revamping it too and taking it from full blown race car to "street car". As full blown drag we'd ran a best of 9.61 1/4 mile. The latest "street setup" (yes, it could be driven to and from the track) has a best of 9.47 1/4 mile with Martin as the pilot (his first time in the car).

[r33pwrd]

How do you cause the injectors to fire more fuel into the cylinders? Some type of fuel pressure regulator or something?

Just curious.

Injector pulse width (I assume EFI live can adjust pulse width?) and fuel pressure....

[Team ZR-1]

How do you cause the injectors to fire more fuel into the cylinders? Some type of fuel pressure regulator or something?

Just curious.

All within the PCM tuning as to injector flow and timing.

If injectors are a bit too small then either go with a larger injector,
Use water/methanol injection to reduce fuel needs, if a fuel return system replace regulator with an adjustable type or there are units that can be added that increase voltage to the fuel pump as RPMs increases which also increases fuel flow.

Best case is bit larger fuel injector and then tune the PCM for once it is done nothing else has to be done and PCM adjust the injector flow as need be.

[notfast]

PCM adjust the injector flow as need be.

I'm not the most technical person, but how does the PCM adjust 'injector flow' when spraying after the maf? the only possible way i see spraying a dry shot after the maf would be best is if the car is tuned/set up for injectors to A) flow as much as necessary on n20 all the time even when not spraying or B) have a tune that when n20 is activated the fuel delivery is changed...which im assuming is what you are talking about

with a small 75-100 shot thru the maf the pcm should be more than able to adjust the fuel delivery -- which is all around easier and just as safe for the average joe with a street car....bigger shots things change

[r33pwrd]

with a small 75-100 shot thru the maf the pcm should be more than able to adjust the fuel delivery -- which is all around easier and just as safe for the average joe with a street car....bigger shots things change

I would have to not agree with that.... expecially on my own truck

Could the MAF even detect the NOS?? I wouls say No based on ZR1's data logs... I believe the MAF only looks at air flow...

[MikeG]

I believe the MAF only looks at air flow...
That is what Team ZR-1 was stating, that the MAF data did not change because when you add the N2O, you are just displacing the air....

[Team ZR-1]

I'm not the most technical person, but how does the PCM adjust 'injector flow' when spraying after the maf? the only possible way i see spraying a dry shot after the maf would be best is if the car is tuned/set up for injectors to A) flow as much as necessary on n20 all the time even when not spraying or B) have a tune that when n20 is activated the fuel delivery is changed...which im assuming is what you are talking about

with a small 75-100 shot thru the maf the pcm should be more than able to adjust the fuel delivery -- which is all around easier and just as safe for the average joe with a street car....bigger shots things change

I am not sure how or why people think that having the N20 nozzle before the MAF that some magic will occur when the MAF only is looking at the MASS, not the volume.

As the scanner data I posted shows the MAF reported ZERO difference with N20 before the MAF and with no M20.

Consider the MAF as 85 mm, that is about 850 CFM.
N20 nozzle for like a 75 shot is smaller then a pin hole, very little overall volume compared to the air volume.

In most cases N20 is only used when engine is in WOT, the PCM is using power enrichment fuel tables to set the AFR.
That has zero to do with MAF being able to tell small part of mass is N20.

Again MAF reports nothing different as to MASS thus it reports nothing different to PCM thus it is not adjusting fuel AFR since N20 is not increasing the mass it only is replacing a small part of the air mass and MAF cannot see or measure that.
Keep in mind as mentioned the O2 of N20 is not present until the N20 is in the heat of cylinder thus that is after the fact and if engine is not in WOT then the O2 sensors would report leaner and thus PCM would then command more injector on time.

If you really want to get wacko, with a OBD scanner record the delivered engine torque parameter.

Now do a run with no N20, then do it with N20 and guess what the PCM reports the same NA torque values.

Why because PCM calculates in part torque by the reported air mass and thus MAF sees no difference so engine NA reports 350 ft/lbs with and without N20 even though engine increased to 500 ft/lbs torque

All I see with N20 nozzle before the MAF is at $4 per pound N20 getting blown out the aircleaner.

[Alvin]

Thats just plain incorrect. Anyone who has ever sprayed a dry shot like NOS kit for a LS1 F or Y body will tell you it will raise the MAF Hz and you will get more fuel as a result. Also, everything is going to flow down hill so it would much rather go to the 96KPA intake rather than the 101KPA aircleaner.

[Team ZR-1]

Thats just plain incorrect. Anyone who has ever sprayed a dry shot like NOS kit for a LS1 F or Y body will tell you it will raise the MAF Hz and you will get more fuel as a result. Also, everything is going to flow down hill so it would much rather go to the 96KPA intake rather than the 101KPA aircleaner.

That is not correct as the scanner data shown even at WOT, TPS at 100 percent there is zero difference.
Shooting N20 is not going to make more mass, it only is replacing a small part of the volume.

No a N20 tank at 800 to 1000 PSI is going to take the least resistance path and the nozzle output of 75 shot is so small has no assurance it will get to the intake. Makes no sense to place a nozzle in a location that does not assure the small N20 volume to 100% into the cylinders on some myth the PCM will see something and adjust when N20 is used for WOT and PCM ignores smog sensors and uses PE fuel tables

Hell it has been proven and reason like the C6 Z06 has to have special pads in the airbridge as EPA found engine oil fumes reverbing out the aircleaner into the air thus hydrocarbon pads suck those fumes in to prevent going out the aircleaner.

People do not install direct porting of N20 if blowing it into a airspace that has little pressure would get the best performance and clearly a aircleaner would not be made out of paper if the inside of a aircleaner had any pressure.

If MAF as to frequency output exceeded lets say 12,000 Hz then PCM would trip a DTC which it does not and the fact is if a 85 mm MAF, I'd like to see anyone show scanner data using 75 or even 150 shot N20 show engine getting more then about 600 CFM when MAF is 850 CFM.

Impossible for a MAF to see any difference in MASS as that is all it does nor does it see any real IAT difference since the N20 is very little of the volume of air path.

if incorrect, show why in the 2 scanner recordings why all values related to MAF are the same and further if N2O made some difference then how come torque when N20 is MAF reports same torque as when N2O is off ?

What is good about a OBD scanner it clears out the BS and reports the facts of what engine and PCM see and do.

As to flowing downhill, at WOT there is almost no vaccum and MAP is the inverse of it thu 95 KPA is almost no vaccum and 101 KPA at air cleaner is even less and why aircleaner can be made of paper

[Alvin]

Reader beware on this... Lots of rambling.. Shoot nitrous over a MAF and you will see it read higher... Thats how the NOS 5177 kits work for LS1 cars. I know, I still have a kit that we shot plenty of bottles thru and the MAF table was tuned to run 13 NA and 11.5-12 on nitrous.

[Team ZR-1]

Reader beware on this... Lots of rambling.. Shoot nitrous over a MAF and you will see it read higher... Thats how the NOS 5177 kits work for LS1 cars. I know, I still have a kit that we shot plenty of bottles thru and the MAF table was tuned to run 13 NA and 11.5-12 on nitrous.

Bunk and you still have not answered WHY the MAF and PCM show no difference and I'll add this

Answer why in several tests with all results at

http://teamzr1.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=705#Post705

That not once the MAF, reported any difference and why on a load sharing dyno when engine produced 700 HP that MAF caused PCM to still ONLY report NA hosrspower ?

If your going to discuss facts show some.
Lets see the scanner data that includes MAF and delivered torque values

Those kits are to fool customers that they do not need any more cost by just putting it in and going, the fact is if non WOT then the O2 sensors would see a leaner condition, there would be engine knock and the PCM would self adjust.
What is bogus is the PCM is timed based and N20 is on in most cases for less then 30 seconds at most and the PCM does not even have time to fully use it's adaptive strategy.

Timng and proper N20 placement is the best path.

As to tuning the MAF tables is quite stupid as the PCM calculates auto trannie line pressure, torque and even engine load and by fricking with MAF tables causes the PCM to calculate all those incorrectly.
No wonder so many blown engines due to canned tunes.

[r33pwrd]

That is what Team ZR-1 was stating, that the MAF data did not change because when you add the N2O, you are just displacing the air....


I was just agreeing with him :cheers1:

[MommieTy]

:popcom::popcom:

[bass22]

I hear a big ole BOOM!!! Comin very soon. Need to get that thing tuned and setup to handle that laughin gas.

[Alvin]

750psi nitrous 'tank' pressure, blowing nitorus out of the air cleaner, 700 HP thru MAF (who cares about the 512 limit), this is scary..

I'll let some others who have been around the block (in this universe) argue with you for a while.

[notfast]

My non technical ass can't argue with stuff being thrown around like that...as alvin said, reader beware...i see tranny line pressure, maf readings and tank pressure in the same post...>WTF<

[Texas07SS]

Wow. I'm not shure what to do now. I do know that I followed the instructions when i put both kits in. It told me to put the Jet b4 the mass air so it see's an increse in the air intake so it up's the fuel to compensate for it. If doing that was wrong i'm sorry. I"m just trying to get the Trailblazer to be able to run on nitrous at the track with no problems.

[Alvin]

No you did right. I would just reccomend getting a wideband or seeing a tuner to make sure the AFR is on track.

[JBrown]

TEAm zR-1- alot of the stuff you have stated is not adding up to me...

Main point for me is using the dry shot. You saidyou have made comparisons while tuning on a dry shot.... A dry shot of nitros is so unpredictable its not even right to point out that you have "accurate" info. Now if you did the same tests w/ a wet shot I would respect.

Another thing was that you stated that you were testing on 750psi.... WTF? I run at the track at nearly 1200psi... The bottle pressure after one pass on 750psi goes down so drastically its not even worth trying to tune...

I'm too ADD to read all your posts... but from what I could get out of them, I really have a hard time being convinced of your "research"

[Texas07SS]

No you did right. I would just reccomend getting a wideband or seeing a tuner to make sure the AFR is on track.
is there a tuner that i could get that is fairly cheap that does atf. Or matbe a mail order tune i could put on it so it doesnt over rev when its on spray?

[Atv Pro]

Ok, lets figure out how much you really want to get into this. For $500 you can buy HP Tuners and be all set. With this you can pull timing, if needed, adjust your shift points and even hook it up to a wideband and read your afr,(but you'll need something like the LM1). But yes, you can get a mailorder tune and have them lower the shift points but the problem will be the truck will shift like that all the time, not just on the spray.

[Texas07SS]

Ok, lets figure out how much you really want to get into this. For $500 you can buy HP Tuners and be all set. With this you can pull timing, if needed, adjust your shift points and even hook it up to a wideband and read your afr,(but you'll need something like the LM1). But yes, you can get a mailorder tune and have them lower the shift points but the problem will be the truck will shift like that all the time, not just on the spray.

Ok so i'd need to get a hold of an hp tuner or the LM1. What is the LM1 and where can i get one or an hp tuner?

[Atv Pro]

HP Tuners is software that needs to be use w/ a laptop. You get a cable that links the obdII port and the computer. From there you can tune yourself away. You can get if from HPTUNERS.com I believe or a vendor that is floating around.


The LM1 is a wideband that will monitor afr. Its made by Innovative. These are sold by Summitt and those types of places. Youll need to weld a bung in the exhaust and install the supplied o2 sensor.

[Texas07SS]

HP Tuners is software that needs to be use w/ a laptop. You get a cable that links the obdII port and the computer. From there you can tune yourself away. You can get if from HPTUNERS.com I believe or a vendor that is floating around.


The LM1 is a wideband that will monitor afr. Its made by Innovative. These are sold by Summitt and those types of places. Youll need to weld a bung in the exhaust and install the supplied o2 sensor.I dont think my Friend will let me do that to his wife's daily driver.

On the other hand if it will be for the better i'm sure i could convince him to let me do it if it will help the car.

So HP tuners would be the way to go on the shift points so it wont over rev?

[Atv Pro]

Welding a bung in the exhaust is a two minute job and is harmless. If you run an a/f gauge its a must. HP Tuners will give you the most control. The simplest thing would be to get a mail order tune. That way you can't make any mistakes but any changes you would need to send the computers back to the tuner.

Or you can buy an ls2 plate kit and bolt it on and just run it!! Spary a 100 with no worries!!!

[Texas07SS]

Welding a bung in the exhaust is a two minute job and is harmless. If you run an a/f gauge its a must. HP Tuners will give you the most control. The simplest thing would be to get a mail order tune. That way you can't make any mistakes but any changes you would need to send the computers back to the tuner.

Or you can buy an ls2 plate kit and bolt it on and just run it!! Spary a 100 with no worries!!!

Well he likes the kit we have and the way we have it run since you cant tell it has nitrous just by looking at it.

Can you or someone help me out finding the correct hp tuner for my situation. I looked at the site and me being some what computer illiterate i cant figure out what i need not how to find it.

[Atv Pro]

Just get the VCM suite, base type GM. Standard interface.

You'll be able to tune two different vehicles with this. Just make sure you know what changes you are making.

[Texas07SS]

Jamie that would be this one correct?

http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmsuite.php

[Atv Pro]

I'm pretty sure thats the one that I have.

http://www.hptuners.com/order.php Should be the same one you posted.

[Alvin]

With any power adder I would reccomend pro that way you can log wideband.

[Atv Pro]

Thank God someone who knew wtf they were talking about chimed in!!! Go with the pro!!!!

[Texas07SS]

So get the HP tuner but the professional instead of the standard?

[MikeG]

Why not just convert the kit to a wet plate system. it is cheaper than all the other alternatives....

[Atv Pro]

Seems like the best way to go. With that an the LM1 you'll be all set and safe.

[Texas07SS]

Why not just convert the kit to a wet plate system. it is cheaper than all the other alternatives....

I'll keep this in mind. I've sent my friend the link to the hp tuner so if he says no i'll tell him the only other thing to do that isnt very expensive is to convert it to a wet system.

[Atv Pro]

Good Luck.

[Texas07SS]

Seems like the best way to go. With that an the LM1 you'll be all set and safe.

were all for the best and safest way to run the 75 shot to see how much it improves the time. we have been thinking about spraying a 100 shot but not until we get this lil problem fixed.

[MikeG]

Here is a plate conversion kit: http://nitrousoutlet.com/catalog/product_details.asp?group=35&model=51&dept=11&product_id=993

EDIT: wrong one originally posted

[Team ZR-1]

TEAm zR-1- alot of the stuff you have stated is not adding up to me...

Main point for me is using the dry shot. You saidyou have made comparisons while tuning on a dry shot.... A dry shot of nitros is so unpredictable its not even right to point out that you have "accurate" info. Now if you did the same tests w/ a wet shot I would respect.

Another thing was that you stated that you were testing on 750psi.... WTF? I run at the track at nearly 1200psi... The bottle pressure after one pass on 750psi goes down so drastically its not even worth trying to tune...

I'm too ADD to read all your posts... but from what I could get out of them, I really have a hard time being convinced of your "research"

I used 750 PSI as an example since most times someone buying just a 75 shot also is not using a heater for tank and pressure never stays anywhere near 1000 PSI with 5 or 10 pound tank.

Dry has nothing to do with the final outcome, WET is used mostly because people either do not want to spend the money for a tune, are not told about tuning and its far more profit for vendors selling N20 to sell the higher priced wet systems.
Wet is far more dangerous, fuel solenoids seals leaking is common, puddling of fuel in intake is one of the reasons vendors like FAST make hugh profits on a intake that will blow out instead of intake becoming a bomb.

Again this thread was about a 75 shot and thus totally different as what is needed to be stable over 200 shot

As to wet, the difference is still how the total powertrain is configured and properly tuned as adding more fuel that is unmetered to the PCM is far more risk then dry and having PCM control fuel flow.

750 PSI or 1100 makes no difference and in fact nozzle before MAF at that PSI has even more chance of N20 blowing out the air cleaner then totally into the intake and to assure N20 is getting to all cylinders it sure is much better with nozzle right before TB and all that pressure directed into the intake.

Still after all the posts no one has shown otherwise as the REASON to put nozzle upstream of MAF, all those pro that placement, not one proving MAF can see and report anything different and in fact have not shown at all why upstream is better then downstream of MAF.

N20 vendors do not make nozzle plates that go between TB and intake for no reason.

[ImpBluSS]

With any power adder I would reccomend pro that way you can log wideband.

Can I use my lm-1 with the pro interface and if so how are these devices connected. I've got an lm-1 and the standard ver of hptuners but will get the pro interface upgrade if i can connect my lm-1. I could use both but I'd rather use only one device to log with. LM-1 record is kind of a pain when you're trying to stage.

[JBrown]

I used 750 PSI as an example since most times someone buying just a 75 shot also is not using a heater for tank and pressure never stays anywhere near 1000 PSI with 5 or 10 pound tank.

Dry has nothing to do with the final outcome, WET is used mostly because people either do not want to spend the money for a tune, are not told about tuning and its far more profit for vendors selling N20 to sell the higher priced wet systems.
Wet is far more dangerous, fuel solenoids seals leaking is common, puddling of fuel in intake is one of the reasons vendors like FAST make hugh profits on a intake that will blow out instead of intake becoming a bomb.

Again this thread was about a 75 shot and thus totally different as what is needed to be stable over 200 shot

As to wet, the difference is still how the total powertrain is configured and properly tuned as adding more fuel that is unmetered to the PCM is far more risk then dry and having PCM control fuel flow.

750 PSI or 1100 makes no difference and in fact nozzle before MAF at that PSI has even more chance of N20 blowing out the air cleaner then totally into the intake and to assure N20 is getting to all cylinders it sure is much better with nozzle right before TB and all that pressure directed into the intake.

Still after all the posts no one has shown otherwise as the REASON to put nozzle upstream of MAF, all those pro that placement, not one proving MAF can see and report anything different and in fact have not shown at all why upstream is better then downstream of MAF.

N20 vendors do not make nozzle plates that go between TB and intake for no reason.

I still feel like your not speaking english here.

Nitrous is not complicated. You are making it so.

Your reasoning has made no sense whatsoever... I'll leave my comments at that.

[Billyman]

I've been trying to stay out of "the argument" but...........

The tables in which you posted could have come from anywhere, anything, and no one knows but you. These go in the "claims" section. You're claims seem to conflict with virtually any and everyone else's including manufacturers and installer/tuners. I'll site some BS to your tables and claims...

The MAF only plays a partial role in injector pulse width, fuel enrichment, and A/F adjustment. This is why the TPS, IAT, Coolant, MAP, and O2 sensors are included. Let’s just say the ambient temperature is 10º F and the engine coolant sensor detects the engine operating temperature of 195º F. The IAT could be reading 40º air temp depending on the inlet routing and sends signal to the PCM to slightly enrich the fuel to compensate for the cooler air. Now taking the MAF into consideration and with the same 40º air, it takes “X” amount of current to keep the heated wire at a designated temp. The MAF all by itself would interpret this current or lower resistance as air flow and a lot of it. Since the PCM looks not only at the MAF but at the IAT and ECT as well, the PCM is able to determine that it is not all airflow but is affected by actual temperature. What you wind up with is a slightly richer A/F mixture. We don’t see SES lights from this because of a pre-programmed acceptable range.

As N2O is sprayed through the MAF, the same effect happens as to if it were 10º outside. In some cases the PCM will go into “startup” or “cold start up” enrichment mode. In all, the injector pulse width is increased to inject more fuel to compensate.

When a vehicle using a MAF is properly tuned, unplugging and/or removing the MAF should have no effect what-so-ever on the vehicles performance. When properly tuned, the MAF could “go bad” and no one would ever know unless it set a code and SES light. Even with this fact, when N2O is sprayed through it, there is a change in the injector pulse width.

You’ve posted these MAF tables supposedly with and without N2O, now post the injector tables and A/F tables that along with them. After doing that, explain the changes and what caused them.

Dry has nothing to do with the final outcome, WET is used mostly because people either do not want to spend the money for a tune, are not told about tuning and its far more profit for vendors selling N20 to sell the higher priced wet systems.
Wet is far more dangerous, fuel solenoids seals leaking is common, puddling of fuel in intake is one of the reasons vendors like FAST make hugh profits on a intake that will blow out instead of intake becoming a bomb.

Some true and absolute false here:

Dry does a lot to do with the final outcome. If you don’t have enough fuel enhancement you have a lean condition……………….and a burned piston/blown engine. The best tuner in the world cannot make the injectors flow or inject more fuel than they are capable of. At 100% injector duty cycle, the injector is static (wide open at constant). If your logged data says 120% duty cycle, this is what the injector driver is being commanded to do in attempts to keep up with O2 demands but the injector cannot cycle any more than 100%.

We inject 1000 horsepower worth of nitrous into our 10.5 Outlaw car. You cannot do this on a DRY shot or shot(s). There are no high horsepower cars racing the 1/8 or 1/4 mile…………or even salt flats…………….with a DRY shot. This isn’t because everyone is too cheap to get a tune, it’s because it’s the only true way to be SAFE about it.

It is true that too rich is just as bad as too lean. Overly rich causes fuel to get trapped between the piston rings and when it ignites, it will lift a ring/ring land. However, companies such as NX, NOS, Nitrous Dave, Compucar, etc, etc, etc, have gone through extensive testing to calculate the proper fuel/N2O jetting per application as to be just enough on the rich side for the extra fuel to be an added buffer, not as a ticking time bomb.

Hello Team ZR-1? 1980 called and said they wanted their fuel solenoids back.

Todays nitrous and fuel ‘noids are superior to that of what was offered just 2-5 years ago. “leakage” issues are pretty much a thing of the past.

FAST sells intakes because they increase power…………with or without N2O.

[Blindmelon]

What this all adds up to is to spend the money & do it right or pay later when things go wrong. I agree the wide-band gauge is a must to know where you are A/F wise. I also agree with a adjustable bottle heater & keeping the bottle pressure where you leave at 1050 to 1100 psi after purging. Wet system give you a easier way to control
A/F in the 11.5 to 11.7 range on nitrous. Colder plugs are also a good choice. Done correctly it is not that difficult to use with great results. Go cheap & you may need to have enough money to put back for a new motor. LOL

[Alvin]

Dry has nothing to do with the final outcome, WET is used mostly because people either do not want to spend the money for a tune, are not told about tuning and its far more profit for vendors selling N20 to sell the higher priced wet systems.
Wet is far more dangerous, fuel solenoids seals leaking is common, puddling of fuel in intake is one of the reasons vendors like FAST make hugh profits on a intake that will blow out instead of intake becoming a bomb.



Here we go again with the vendor conspiracies! LOL :king1:

[notfast]

I used 750 PSI as an example since most times someone buying just a 75 shot also is not using a heater for tank and pressure never stays anywhere near 1000 PSI with 5 or 10 pound tank.

Dry has nothing to do with the final outcome, WET is used mostly because people either do not want to spend the money for a tune, are not told about tuning and its far more profit for vendors selling N20 to sell the higher priced wet systems.
Wet is far more dangerous, fuel solenoids seals leaking is common, puddling of fuel in intake is one of the reasons vendors like FAST make hugh profits on a intake that will blow out instead of intake becoming a bomb.

Again this thread was about a 75 shot and thus totally different as what is needed to be stable over 200 shot

As to wet, the difference is still how the total powertrain is configured and properly tuned as adding more fuel that is unmetered to the PCM is far more risk then dry and having PCM control fuel flow.

750 PSI or 1100 makes no difference and in fact nozzle before MAF at that PSI has even more chance of N20 blowing out the air cleaner then totally into the intake and to assure N20 is getting to all cylinders it sure is much better with nozzle right before TB and all that pressure directed into the intake.

Still after all the posts no one has shown otherwise as the REASON to put nozzle upstream of MAF, all those pro that placement, not one proving MAF can see and report anything different and in fact have not shown at all why upstream is better then downstream of MAF.

N20 vendors do not make nozzle plates that go between TB and intake for no reason.


People should read your posts with a grain of salt. Point blank. You are making broad generalizations that people using a 75 shot dont use heaters, that magically a 75 shot 'isnt worth it' yet a 100 shot is. Fuel solenoids leaking is common? wow really? ... stop using NOS kits from 1975.

You say there is no difference between 750psi and 1100psi "tank" pressure LOL that is completely wrong.

and n20 vendors DO make dry 'plate' kits for after the MAF...they also make items such as the harrisspeedworks interface because you cannot safely spray a dry shot after the maf without additional tuning

[r33pwrd]

you cannot safely spray a dry shot after the maf without additional tuning


FYI... Im not a pro on NOS but after looking at a few of the big NOS kit manufacturers (not sellers but the makers) they recomend not running NOS through your MAF..... I guess this is a very generic comment you find under ther FAQ's and so forth.... and maybe in some applications it OK... Again not arguning just stating what I found on a few of there sites.

Thanks

[notfast]

the additional tuning is the important part of that statement...

edit -- especially when referencing the original point of this post..LOL...the basic user who wants to put a small shot on their vehicle...

[Alvin]

FYI... Im not a pro on NOS but after looking at a few of the big NOS kit manufacturers (not sellers but the makers) they recomend not running NOS through your MAF..... I guess this is a very generic comment you find under ther FAQ's and so forth.... and maybe in some applications it OK... Again not arguning just stating what I found on a few of there sites.

Thanks

Eh, kind of a loaded statement.

You have

Wet which sprays its make up fuel with a extra fuel solinoid usually attached at the fuel rail test port. These kits are sprayed behind the MAF or even directly into each cylinder

Then you have dry which either

*sprays nitrous against a fuel pressure regulator diaphram which raises the fuel pressure to 90psi or more. This system is sprayed behind the MAF

* sprays nitrous across the MAF. This enriches the mixture with the MAF.

* Spray dry behind the maf and add it with a aftermarket fuel injection system. This requires a trigger so that the tune isn't adding fuel for nitrous when the system isn't off or the car is running all motor

[Team ZR-1]

People should read your posts with a grain of salt. Point blank. You are making broad generalizations that people using a 75 shot dont use heaters, that magically a 75 shot 'isnt worth it' yet a 100 shot is. Fuel solenoids leaking is common? wow really? ... stop using NOS kits from 1975.

You say there is no difference between 750psi and 1100psi "tank" pressure LOL that is completely wrong.

and n20 vendors DO make dry 'plate' kits for after the MAF...they also make items such as the harrisspeedworks interface because you cannot safely spray a dry shot after the maf without additional tuning

Yea, well here is a real grain of salt.
$75,000 Z06 is now ashes due to stupid shit all due to so called know it alls on forums and people not learning the simple basics conning people to spray fuel into a intake.

Yea you know it alls cost millions of dollars of wreckage. .

Oh the con jobs and the pain

Effects of WET systems, common end results :

http://teamzr1.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2260#Post2260

[Team ZR-1]

Here we go again with the vendor conspiracies! LOL :king1:

Yes a I totally agree,
greedy so called vendors who should be doing their work since they claim to be so successful spent all their time on forums selling crap they have zero knowledge on.

Yes, for sure, sell a N20 wet kit for outragous prices and tell people the best design is spray fuel into a hot intake because its a easy sell rather then swap to larger injectors and have someone who knows how to proper tune the PCM handle when N20 is on and the effects after it turns off.

I notice you like to yack but still have not shown 1 bit of proof with scanner data on anything you have stated,

How come ?

[r33pwrd]

swap to larger injectors and have someone who knows how to proper tune the PCM handle when N20 is on and the effects after it turns off.


I really dont see how us guys that daily drive can run bigger injetors... i dont want to have to chage my tune every time I go to the track..... hasnt NOS been WET systems since the start? the old holley kits that mounted under the carb?? I really cant recall a seeing a 250 HP dry shoot... not that i have looked.

[Atv Pro]

I think I'll probably stick my wet kit too! Its worked ok so far.......:rofl:

[notfast]

no one should listen to what team zr1 is saying...if you read the links to "his" site, it shows a burned up z06 and its all because a wet n20 kit...i guess the guy was spraying in his driveway and the magically explosive intake caused the entire car to torch...

his information is wrong...point blank WRONG

[kc07ss]

He sure sounds like he knows alot. Ha ha. I have been running my kit for awhile now and haven't had any problems. Well except tranny problems, but I love the bottle, probably my best mod for the buck I have made so far.

[Billyman]

He seems to have avoided my post. :dunno:

[Texas07SS]

I've got lots of good info in here. Team Zr-1's post seem a little odd. and we were talking about what would fix my problem not that i should take the nitrous off.

[ssprince]

I will be doing nitrous in the future, I come here to read about things my fellow TBSS owners are doing and finding out what works and what dosent work, I'm not a fkn scientist, I'm a Carpenter, I sometimes need things explained with a little more hands on type of situation, These charts and graphs and figures and that crap really kind of fks me up, I ran Nitrous on a small block many years ago, Just bought a kit and bolted it on! fkn thing was awsome! Am I missing something here????? And as for Dr. Zr1, I find all your info very interesting, but long winded, I like to just get to the point, Ive been watching this thread and eating my popcorn(haha) If you don't have anytrhing nice to say about our fellow TBSS owner/Vendors, Then shut the fuck up! Sorry guys just had 2 vent

[Blindmelon]

Here is my 2 bottle set-up with adjustable bottle heaters & a Y-fitting into a 6 an hose to the front for no pressure lose. Electric nitrous gauge up front & a gauge in the back.
Two stage with purges.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k73/SSTBLS2/Installd.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k73/SSTBLS2/Nitrous5.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k73/SSTBLS2/nitrous7.jpg

[Billyman]

I've got lots of good info in here. Team Zr-1's post seem a little odd. and we were talking about what would fix my problem not that i should take the nitrous off.

In all sincerity, the next time you go out to the track be sure to turn off your traction control and active handling. All the information on how to completely disable these controls are in the owners manual. Familiarize yourself with the simple procedure(s) because you will have to go through the process(s) each time the vehicle is turned off and back on (each time you go to make another pass).

I strongly feel that by not disabling your traction/handling system is what was causing your ill effects from the nitrous.

[Texas07SS]

In all sincerity, the next time you go out to the track be sure to turn off your traction control and active handling. All the information on how to completely disable these controls are in the owners manual. Familiarize yourself with the simple procedure(s) because you will have to go through the process(s) each time the vehicle is turned off and back on (each time you go to make another pass).

I strongly feel that by not disabling your traction/handling system is what was causing your ill effects from the nitrous.
Thanks, We had the TBSS out lastnight with no spray just getting used to turning off the traction control and Stabilitrac and got that down. Were going to take it to the track this thursday and test out how it does on and off nitrous.

[Team ZR-1]

I really dont see how us guys that daily drive can run bigger injetors... i dont want to have to chage my tune every time I go to the track..... hasnt NOS been WET systems since the start? the old holley kits that mounted under the carb?? I really cant recall a seeing a 250 HP dry shoot... not that i have looked.

A LS1 uses 26 lb injectors, LS2 32 lb and C6 Z06 42 lbs and the new ZR1 uses 48 lbs.

They all get the same gas mileage, pass smog and none runs richer then the other as the PCM uises the feedback sensors and adjusts how long a injector is on. Thus even using a larger injector flows no more then a smaller one until the demand requires more fuel

The difference is the larger injector is not going static and can support the demand

Take your car, stock, lets say it has 30 lb injectors
Now someone with the exact make but adds 12 PSI boost and requires 60 lb injectors.

With tuning that boosted engine at idle or part throttle is flowing the same volume of fuel as the stock injectors.

The PCM is doing the changes as it sees fit and why it is much safer then using a dumb wet system that has no control of volume and is being used with then PCM is in PE mode and feedbacks sensors are being ignored.

[NORCAL SS]

TEAM ZR1

All i ask is if you put up claims of a engine blowing up from a tuner. have the guy come on here and want to hear his side of the story.

[Team ZR-1]

TEAM ZR1

All i ask is if you put up claims of a engine blowing up from a tuner. have the guy come on here and want to hear his side of the story.

That is up to the owners but as I mentioned it is clear they would be eaten alive here and you know it.
As the content has shown, no one has discussed the data, shown scan data as asked but instead uses the name calling as their defense.

They are reading this content and it is up to them but since I fixed their problems and they are now customers never would I give out names and if you go back to my first posts I was asked to name vendors and I said I would not do it here but on our forum I and others have the freedom do post what they want as long as it is 1st hand knowledge.
People who are not teammates assume all posts on our forum are from me when they are on purpose under the team name which gives the people freedom to say what they want without being known who posts what

[MikeG]

1st hand knowledge.

That is what we are asking for as well....

[NORCAL SS]

That is up to the owners but as I mentioned it is clear they would be eaten alive here and you know it.
As the content has shown, no one has discussed the data, shown scan data as asked but instead uses the name calling as their defense.

They are reading this content and it is up to them but since I fixed their problems and they are now customers never would I give out names and if you go back to my first posts I was asked to name vendors and I said I would not do it here but on our forum I and others have the freedom do post what they want as long as it is 1st hand knowledge.
People who are not teammates assume all posts on our forum are from me when they are on purpose under the team name which gives the people freedom to say what they want without being known who posts what


pm me their name and number and ill call them and talk to them personally. I dont want to hear 2nd hand stories. If the owners are here of the cars the yous say blew up they arent going to get eat up. 2nd hand info gets eaten up.

[tbssrageboost]

thas true like the guy who got his corvette wrecked from some shop and we herd the story right after it happen we got facts and both side of the stories so please if you do not have evidence, witnesses, and scence to know that u are fulll of it stop claming shit you dont even knwo its true

[MikeG]

No more personal attacks on any one person. If no true 1st hand horror stories, then don't post it.

In other words, I don't want to read about "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious."! Comprende?

[MikeG]

Thread closed and I have now grown tired of hearing how ZR1 is right and everyone else in the industry is wrong. And for bringing Corvette owners here to try and defend him and then he says we are all wrong as well...That does it for me.

If anyone wants to read his garbage, go to his site...http://teamzr1.com/

I will keep him as a member here for now, but not his nuthanger...